Money, again. And how it just sort of slips out of our pockets in exchange for mundane little goods & services. My angst over
I'm not going to go over the details of who spent what where, but in general, my husband definitely has a looser hold on the purse-strings. Specifically, he not only tolerates, but seems to find pleasure in buying little treats and snacks for the kids (and himself, on occasion) and is not averse to taking taxis/uber instead of waiting for the bus or walking. And this behavior does not appear to be impacted by how far we happen to be over budget in the given categories for these purchases.
This makes my twitchy. I get annoyed. I start to fret. I get snappy and grumpy. I say fine in a voice that is not fine.
I think I set reasonable amounts in our categories, if I increase them, I have to take money from elsewhere---there isn't "extra" sitting around. Those $5 and $10 add up, and leave nothing to show for it. Sure they stop the whining, maybe prevent 15-20 minutes of boredom or discomfort, but at the end of the day they are forgotten. If we didn't spend those dribs and drabs we'd have a good amount for something memorable---dinner out (delicious food for all of us and no cooking or cleaning!) or a new bike (hours/days/months of fun, exercise and fresh air).
And its not just the budget and the numbers, its the philosophy behind it. I can't bring my kids home from school without them asking for chocolate milk from Starbucks like daddy gets them, or "why can't we just take a taxi" when the bus doesn't come right away or they get slightly tired/bored. I'm OK with being the bad guy here, I tell them "no" and "because I don't think its a good way to spend money/you have to learn to be a little hungry once in a while/you'll never get stronger if you don't push yourself!" (OK that all sounds mean but the latter two we are seriously working on with B & L respectively, B is STARVING every 1-2 hours---how will he handle school? and L walks 10 feet before sitting himself down on the sidewalk and refusing to go further---he's four and objectively healthy, we are not keeping him in the stroller forever).
Its not a hardship to spend 15 minutes on a breezy sunny summer evening to chat about the day and wait for the bus. Its not a hardship to not stop for a snack on the way home from school when there is a healthy delicious dinner ready to go. You don't need to buy snacks at a coffee shop every time you go to the park! They are conditioned to these things because they have gotten them so frequently. Its hedonic adaptation for the pre-school set.
Overall I just want us to live within our means and build some financial security, and pass those values on to our kids. Its not that G doesn't share those values. I just think he is less into the frugality/stoicism/delayed gratification mindset than I am. I actually (perversely?) like the satisfaction that I sucked it up and didn't cave to a little hunger, fatigue, whining and kept that money in my pocket. Whereas he is more apt to pay for convenience and not have to deal with the stress or discomfort.
I'm struggling to find a way to deal with this without increasing marital tension and personal anxiety. I'm tired of feeling like the nag. Maybe I've drunk too much frugal-living Kool Aid? More likely I've always been frugal and averse to certain spending patterns that I consider wasteful, and now that we're tracking our spending, I'm noticing it more. I guess "wasteful" is a subjective judgement. One person's wasteful is another's "worth it". Considering the fact that we aren't in debt, have a nice emergency fund, are saving for retirement, and don't spend on big stuff, maybe I need to let it go.
I hope you guys can work this out-- this is why DH has an allowance, so he can spend on treats but within limits. But he and I agreed on that amount early on and he's experienced for himself how nice it is to have a large emergency fund (allowing him to change careers without money stresses), so he's on board. Feeling like a nag is no fun, and he shouldn't be putting you in that position. It's not like you wouldn't rather spend lots of money too, but financial responsibility is important for your future selves and for emergencies.
ReplyDeleteIf I could figure out how to get people on the same page about money, I would be a multi-millionaire. Good luck with this. :/
I edited above because I hit post too soon. Its not that we aren't on the same page in terms of goals/values, just the specifics of getting there...we don't see eye to eye necessarily on what kind of spending is "wasteful" vs. "worthwhile". We do have allowances but honestly, we've BOTH overspent ours this month (August is a LONG MONTH). It goes quickly if you have a couple of lunches out, a happy hour, a haircut (him---I am putting off my haircut because it would take >50% of my allowance!)---boom, allowance done. I could increase the allowance but that's just moving things around and wouldn't really change anything.
DeleteYeah, I dunno. I think my DH is really good about this without complaint now specifically because we did the scrimp and save thing and it worked. We're in much better financial shape than his siblings and cousins and we've been able to do things that are unthinkable (like go on sabbatical in paradise). I can imagine that when the emergency hasn't happened or you haven't gotten the "big win" experience it can be really hard to limit the little things. Why sacrifice a little today? This one time won't matter, but then the this one times add up. And he does occasionally borrow from himself in the future but he's good about keeping track.
DeleteHaircuts aren't in DH's allowance. :)
And he is allowed to spend on "wants" outside of his allowance, but we have to talk about it first. So it's him asking permission, not me nagging. Which is still putting the onus on me, but it's not as bad as me always being a kill-joy. (These days we're doing much better so he could really have a much larger allowance.)
Oops gotta get on the plane!
it would be really weird for us to go into "scrimp and save" mode, since we are doing pretty well---I mean, yes, the uber-frugal do it, but we aren't MMM or frugalwoods by a long shot and we have no plans to stop paid employment anytime soon! I just want to spend on things that I value---but again, there's the "I" coming in again. if he actually does really value making the kids happy (or avoiding the misery of their whining) with certain treats or getting to relax and take a taxi once in a while (he walks or takes the bus 2 miles each way with the kids every day, and I don't) maybe we need to find a place in the budget for that.
DeleteYeah, it's all about priorities, as you know. Without looking at the entire budget and seeing how things are going overall (savings targets, retirement, etc.) it's hard to say how big "allowances" should/could be. Though I do think there's some value in making treats more of a once (or how every many times) a week thing than a once a day thing, and not in having one parent get to be the fun parent!
DeleteWe definitely no longer scrimp and save, but we once had to, and it paid off very well. So being responsible and then some isn't so bad. (Of course, we're enjoying the benefits of that now with me on half-pay and us in paradise! And enjoyed the benefits before when DH quit his job without another lined up.)
yeah, its definitely NOT every day. I think its easy for me (on the outside) to see the instances pile up and lose sight of the fact that on average, its less often than not.
DeleteThat sounds very frustrating. Is he willing to set his own allowance? I don't know what I would do in a similar situation. Probably nag a lot and be really anxious.
ReplyDeleteit IS frustrating---but its also in honesty, a small amount of money. its not like he's spending hundreds---its more $5/$10 here and there and not realizing/caring that we've spent the restaurant budget or the taxi budget already. I guess its actually more that he's not "playing along" with the budget that we agreed to do, then the actual money? I know we both spend on these things, which is why they are categories in our budget! the point is to keep an eye on it and slow down/stop those things if you notice the budget getting low, vs. just keep spending away and hope it'll work out (it does, I guess, but only because I shuffle things around and take from next month, and spend less myself to even it out)
DeleteOur rule with restaurants is that DH has to spend his own allowance when it's not with me, but he can use general funds when it's with me (or when he's taking care of the kids because I'm gone). Maybe if he had a bigger allowance of things you don't care about because it's "his" money, but other budget categories can't be eaten into in these ways?
DeleteWhen we go out on our own/with friends, it comes from the allowance. Originally, anything we did alone with the kid(s) also came from our allowance, since it was our choice, but that was REALLY limiting, so we moved those purchases to "restaurants".
DeleteThis is one of those areas where DH and I have just agreed to disagree (or behave differently), where the gender roles are pretty much the same as in your marriage. I can tell you that it is at least possible (while of course acknowledging that my kid does not equal your kids, so who knows?) for kids just to know that -- different parent, different approach. My kid doesn't bother asking me for sweets, etc., and certainly never anything out a vending machine, because he already knows there's no point. Whereas DH would get him those things all the time, in a heartbeat (and therefore gets asked for them all the time also).
ReplyDeleteMine's older than yours, I surmise (rising third-grader), and a pretty easy (cooperative) kid, but at least some kids catch on -- doesn't solve the larger problem (if there is one) with your DH's approach, but maybe you can get to a point where they don't bother asking if it's you they're asking.
You are right. My kids are starting to get that concept, too---they already know to ask grandma for things they wouldn't DREAM of asking us for! But I agree that its OK for us to have slightly different approaches. He will buy them treats more than I do, but I can be more patient and read longer books and say yes to putting music on, or going somewhere (free).
DeleteAs a total a type personality, whose trying to let go a little, because it makes my husband so much happier, and me so much happier, and maybe most importantly, us happier, I would say try to let it go. You are on track, in the right space, agree on what is important to both of you and have the same values about money. Imagine if the push back was from his side, that he was right about the treats and you were totally wrong, and that it warranted the irritation that comes with that wrongness.
ReplyDeleteWhat about if you either upped that portion of the allowance, those little treats are part of his happiness quotient, or tried to let them slide more often by seeing them as a necessary indulgence.
Which is, I know, all much easier said than done.
Good luck!
Thanks for your perspective---in fact, even as I wrote the post, I was coming around to this side of it. Honestly, at the end of the day, all that happens when I stress about these things is that I lose out on the fun and joy. And I won't get that time back. I'd rather be happy than right :)
DeleteLast thing, for us I realised that the saving for the big ticket thing didn't always work - sometimes the everyday enjoyment from little things actually gives more happiness than the build up of the big things (I can't tell you how often we've gone out for special dinner planned ages in advance, and then, for whatever reason, just really not got along that evening - which makes it even worse, you've saved and waited for it, it's expensive (relatively) and then you don't even enjoy it.
ReplyDeleteWhich is a long way of saying, as I get older, I find that allowing myself to enjoy the everyday things and not always just focusing on the next big thing, has actually made me/us happier.
ha ha, YES! We've definitely had that happen during a fancy date night with baby sitter and dinner reservation. I think you are new to my blog, but we I wrote this spring about a weekend away that went horribly awry. VERY expensive fight we had there!
Deleteby dinner out, I meant more along the lines of saving for take out or pick up food on the nights we are tired and don't feel like dealing with food prep/clean up---its a HUGE treat for us not to deal with that since we cook the majority of our meals at home and feel like we are constantly cleaning the kitchen.
I don't have to worry about this with a spouse... I have thought about giving LG a certain amount of money to budget for non-essential things for the family, like eating out, entertainment, etc, for one week just to see the choices she'd make. I have a feeling that would stop some of her similar requests for treats...like, fine, we can eat ice cream at an ice cream shop ONCE in a week but not three times. She understands economics to a point when it comes to her own money but I think it's mystifying to her why I'll say a $6 elephant ear at a fair is ridiculous but I'll easily spend more than that on an actual dinner in the same day. We have talked about my salary, how much the house costs, etc, but it is those smaller things...
ReplyDeleteyour LG seems definitely old enough for an allowance or an experiment like you mentioned (that actually seems like a fun/educational experience...)
DeleteI find these money issues to be so tricky, especially because they are only (very) partially about money. They are also intensely personal, as you have pointed out. My G and I are pretty darn frugal (at least I believe that we are) but I think that it's really crucial to have the autonomy to decide when and how to spend on luxuries as long as it isn't damaging. He does occasionally spend money on things that drive me nuts and I know that I do the same but I really try to respect his freedom and I want him to respect mine.
ReplyDeleteI guess my goal is to agree on an overall strategy and budget (sounds like you did this) and then stay away from micromanaging. If you can move past the little things then you can save any issues for the end of the month (or whatever budget period you guys utilize) and discuss things when/if they go over your budget.
Slowmamma
especially because they are only (very) partially about money. They are also intensely personal
DeleteDH and I have separate checking accounts for this reason. I am all for live and let live but he can be overbearing:he happily spends on whatever he wants but would love to limit and control what I spend -- we had a big argument in year 2-3 of marriage on how I spend too much on coffee and I swore I would never have that again. While I think he spends too much of his salary on stupid shit we don't need (as evidenced by UPS's constant presence at my house) and my salary pays for the big stuff (house, child care, groceries), I consider this the price of peace.
Some people have marriages that are wonderful partnerships. Mine is not perfect, but DH is a good dad and the kids are happy, so I try to make it work, although some days (many days?) I want to (figuratively) strangle him. Sorry for the TMI.
we're all about the TMI here. I appreciate your last paragraph a lot. Most marriages really aren't perfect, though to browse the blogosphere you'd think otherwise! The days I want to strangle my husband are outnumbered by the days I don't by a long shot, so I'll take that as a really good sign! I get hung up on details (data-driven, perfectionist, Type A, neurotic whatever you want to call it) and miss the big picture. The big picture is the real point of it all.
DeleteMy husband and I are similar. We are just "frugal" in different ways. He hates to pay for parking and likes DIY projects. I clip coupons and am more mindful of money, but if it makes life easier to pay for parking or pay for someone to do it, I don't hesitate. Hopefully we balance each other out!
ReplyDeleteyes, my husband is big on DYI projects lately. another one I completely forgot where he probably saves us HUNDREDS.
Delete