That's what I
Here's the thing. I'm an introvert. I've read (can't remember where, likely multiple places) that introverts need these close friends just as much as extroverts. Its the superficial interactions that introverts can do without. These days, if I go to a party, my idea of a good time is to hunker in the corner with 2-3 close friends, and have a long conversation with a few glasses of wine. Whereas an extrovert would want to "work the crowd" and mix and mingle for hours. I much prefer to go to happy hour with 1-5 other people I could really talk to than a huge 15-20 people gathering where I would probably end up just listening as various conversation buzzed around me. I've also read that introverts are drawn to blogging because you can connect on that level without having to deal with the small-talk that needs to comes first IRL.
Several of you commented in my post last week, about community, that their spouses didn't seem to have this need for companionship, and were perfectly happy with work and family. It made me wonder whether there was a gender difference in the need for close connections. I hear this almost universally, so I can't discount it (though I hate hate HATE most assertions of gender differences, since they don't play out the typical way in my marriage/family and also since many are deeply rooted in patriarchy).
But why would this be? Its definitely not an introvert/extrovert thing. My husband is actually (slightly) more into parties/mingling than I am. He wishes we had more couple/family friends to do stuff with, but I've never heard him lament the lack of "close friends". I'm not going to entertain any evolutionary psychology-based hypotheses about hunters and gatherers and nurturers (sorry, sarah, but yeah, patriarchy) Maybe its nurture more than nature? From an early age, girls are expected to have their BFF to share bracelets and earrings with, and popular culture is not lacking in idealized views of adult female friendship (Sex and the City). Maybe we feel this lack in our life because we hold this worldview in which women are supposed to have lots of close friendships? I don't have an answer.
Another part to this is the idea that "work and family connections are enough". Sure you can have good friends at work. If you get to spend enough time with them at work, and get the serious talk and joking around during your 9-5, you may not need more. And some people are really really close to their family? I'm not, so this one is hard for me to get. Do people really tell their parents about their work problems or marriage issues? Their siblings? I text with my sister and we talk kid issues, our shared experience as children of our parents, and our exercise plans, mostly. But i do try to smooth things over for family and definitely avoid tricky subjects. I can't imagine family being enough.
I know that if I want something to change in life I have to do something about. I'm not going to make good friends by writing about it, and to get to that deep friendship involves swimming through the murky waters of parties and small-talk. Its like dating---you have to put yourself out there, and you probably won't connect with a good percentage of people you meet, but you have to keep trying. I need to look into new avenues to meet people and then actually follow-through. Its scary.
Are you trying to meet new friends? How? Are men just from Mars? What are your theories on the gender differences here?
Interestingly, people didn't feel like they could be themselves around Anne (after she grew out of her awkward phase). For all the emphasis on kindred spirits, people felt like they had to be their best selves around Anne. (I remember finding this very disturbing in middle school because I have had a bit of that problem, though as I'm older I've gotten used to it-- I'd rather see people's best selves than their true selves especially if it means they drive more safely when I'm in the car.) (Also she and Diana kind of outgrew each other in later books, even though Anne still thought of her as her best friend, they didn't really connect anymore.)
ReplyDeleteAnd no, I don't think there's an inherent gender difference in need. There's a difference in opportunity. It is well documented that men tend to go into decline when their wives die, but not vice-versa. This is generally attributed to loss of social networks. Men need the networks, but once they're retired, they rely on their wives' networks, and once she's gone they kind of go into a decline and die. It's very sad.
Like I said before, now that my husband telecommutes, he complains about needing socialization. His close friends that he can talk to about anything are a cousin, his brother, and one of his grad classmates who now lives overseas (though they don't talk as much as they used to which makes him sad).
re: Anne, yes, I know, but just using her terminology as an intro. I knew this about widows dying sooner than widowers after spouse's death, but didn't think about how that related to social networks. Your husband sounds more like mine, but not like some of the other commenters on my previous post, who will hopefully chime in!
DeleteBut see, before he telecommuted he didn't need the socialization so much. His gender didn't change, his circumstances did.
DeleteMy DH is really antisocial, getting more so with age. He avoids people at work and doesn't crave them at home, and doesn't have close friends; he's in regular contact with his brother (overseas) and they seem close-ish and his WoW raiding group, although I am not sure the latter counts as friendship although they raid together twice a week. He just doesn't seem to need people very much, I think the family is more than sufficient for him as the kids crave a lot of interaction.
DeleteWell, she grows apart a bit from Diana when she goes to college vs. Diana getting married & having a baby. But they are still close in later books---she goes to visit and they have long talks. But beyond that, Anne makes good friends in every stage of life---college, newlywed (Lesley) and beyond (maybe less once she has a brood of kids)
DeleteI really liked Anne of Green Gables in middle school...I wonder how it would hold up for me today!
ReplyDeleteI hadn't thought about blogging and introversion that way before, but it makes a good deal of sense.
Anne is even *better* as an adult. There's a lot of sly humor directed at grown-ups.
DeleteYes, read Anne again, I particularly like the ones where she is an adult. I'm pretty sure I found those "boring" when I was a kid.
DeleteMy husband absolutely has no interest in community or social networks. He has really one friend that he sees pretty frequently, but that is because they work on something together (outside of their day jobs). Other than the one friend, and seeing his parents pretty frequently he does nothing to stay connected with friends. A lot of them live far away, and he will make an effort to see them if he happens to travel where they are (or they happen to travel here) but he makes no effort to reach out to them at other times. He is very introverted and I am very extroverted, so I've always attributed the difference to that, but I have a feeling there is gender stuff at play as well.
ReplyDeleteI've read that women are socialized to have face to face relationships, where talking is the main connection and men are more socialized to habe shoulder to shoulder relationships, where they do something together and are both looking toward that other thing (like watching sports or playing video games). Maybe it is easier for them to do those things with people they don't know well because there is an activity involved, while it's harder for a woman to sit face to face and talk with someone they aren't close to.
I read that too, about face to face vs shoulder to shoulder, in the context of male partners feeling that TV/movie time was good couple bonding whereas female partners did not feel that way. It encouraged me to say yes occasionally when G wanted to watch a movie with me and not to think it meant he didn't really want to hang out (it just doesn't feel like spending time together to me, especially when I'm not supposed to talk!)
DeleteIt's so much more complicated than introversion vs extroversion! I like big groups and noise, but then I like to come home and have breaks from it. I once lived with a roommate (actually my cousin), who liked to have 2 or 3 people she was close with and to be with them all the time. Needless to say, it wasn't a great roommate situation.
ReplyDeleteMy husband is, I think, much more extroverted than I am. But he talks to people all day long at work, whereas i'm often by myself. So at the end of the day, I want to go out and do stuff, and he wants to sit in front of the TV.
Also, like nicoleandmaggie said, a lot of what I need depends on what I'm currently getting. I've become more social since having kids, because being home all day with kids drives me crazy. But without kids, I could spend days on end home alone and be fine.
funny, I felt the opposite after having kids----I was getting so much contact/talking/interacting with them that I was spent and just wanted to be alone at the end of the day. It wasn't exactly "social" being with small kids, but, like G & I say, you have to be "on"---cheerful, patient, responsive---and I couldn't be "on" anymore to chit chat or small talk with people.
DeleteI feel this void in my life as well. I do talk to some family members (my sister and SIL in particular) about some pretty deep things, but not everything. I had a best friend (my running partner! you get very close when you do 20 milers together) like that in NC, but she moved to CA.
ReplyDeleteand I agree that it's not a simple extroversion/introversion delineation. I'm an extrovert and really enjoy social gatherings but that's not the same feeling at all as having someone you can truly confide in and connect with.
Deleteyeah, I think the need for close friendships is more fundamental and not relevant to the introvert/extrovert distinction. I mean why wouldn't someone want a good friend to talk over problems with and cheer them up? I think even the anti-social husbands want to get that from their spouse or family, so they don't have to make the effort to get to know new people to find good friends.
DeleteI think the thing that promotes closeness in friendships that is very hard to find in our modern world is lots of time together. I liked my childhood best friend and therefore we spent lots of time together, but it was also the time together - sitting next to each other in class, eating lunch together, seeing each other between classes (this was middle school), spending all weekend together - that really made us close. I think it also works that way with a lot of college roommates (for people who like their roommate, of course). You socialize together, you eat together, you live together... that familiarity breeds a closeness that is like a spouse in some ways and is almost impossible to recreate. You build up that trust slowly, and one day you run out of fluffy stuff to say, and someone says something deep.
ReplyDeleteBut how often do we see our friends? Once a week? Every two weeks? Every month? Our lives just don't lend themselves to that kind of closeness from repeated exposure.
this is absolutely true, very very good point. The last time I made a bunch of friends, I was working 8-10 hours/day in a lab with the same people and ample time for chatting. It was easy to get to know everything about a person after a couple of months of working closely together and then deeper conversations would naturally come up.
DeleteI think making friends and keeping friendships going is hard in the little kid/building careers stage when you need babysitters to do stuff and weekends can be consumed by kid activities. It's something I'd like to develop more in my life, though I am hoping more space will open up when the kids are a little older.
ReplyDeleteI guess I'm getting to that phase in life when the time is opening up a bit. My youngest will be FOUR in 6 weeks. bittersweet
DeleteI need friends. I'd even settle for a non-kindred spirit at this point. I'm trying to make connections in my neighborhood, but it isn't going well so far. I'm still bitter that the woman who moved into my neighborhood 1.5 years ago compared to my 10 knows more people than I do and has more friends.
ReplyDelete